[Tradjazz] Cornet V/S Trumpet

[Bill Barnes]

Let's muddy the water even more -
           Last June, at the annual "Cornet Conspiracy" convention in 
Gainesville Florida, I attended a talk by Robb Stewart from California, an 
internationally known expert on trumpets and cornets, among other things. 
After extensive measuring, he concluded that some trumpets, like the Schilke 
B5 in particular, were more conical than many cornets, while some cornets 
were more cylindrical than many trumpets. The B5, incidentally, is a very 
trumpet sounding trumpet and very popular with pros in all lines of work.
         It has always been my experience that many dixie players using 
shallow mouthpieces on cornets might as well be playing a trumpet as far as 
the sound is concerned. But the cornet, particularly a real short design, 
"looks" better in a dixie band.
         Lu Watters, when asked about all this, had the listener stay in 
another room while he played both trumpet and cornet. The listener couldn't 
tell the difference. Lu, btw, always played trumpet - usually a Martin 
Committee model which is somewhat conical.
         Joe Klee, jazz critic and Bon Vivant about Manhattan, once inquired 
about an album I had just made as to whether I played cornet or trumpet on 
it. I explained the the album was made from several takes on different days 
and that I played cornet on some and trumpet on others.He asked me which was 
which. Since he had always made such a fuss about the difference, I told him 
he should be able to tell himself, but that I forgot which was which. He 
kept pressing me about this and I believe he got somewhat peeved about it. 
He never did review the album.
            About 30 years ago, American Scientific magazine (sic?) printed 
a long technical article on brass instruments and audiophysics which went 
into this question in depth (and to me, also in Greek). I remember hearing 
Lew Green say "I'm keeping this article in my cornet case. The next time 
somebody asks me that question I'm going to say-here! read this!"
              There - now does that clear every thing up?
                                              Bill Barnes
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce McNichols" <muskrat at bestweb.net>
To: <tradjazz at list.okom.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:17 AM
Subject: [Tradjazz] Cornet V/S Trumpet


> Very interesting subject matter Bill.  I've heard many discussions on many 
> things, but I sure have never been involved in one on this subject (ha 
> ha).
>
>>From my humble experience speaking with musicians and fans alike, I've 
>>heard many versions of what is a cornet? (or coronet as some mistakenly 
>>call it) and how does it relate to a trumpet?
>  Yes, the cornet is conical (the tubing gets progressively bigger, from 
> mouthpiece to the bell - which then flares out).  The trumpet is conical, 
> from after the mouthpiece to just before the bell.
> Many say that the cornet is a smaller instrument.  My experience tells me 
> that many cornets appear to be smaller than many trumpets since the cornet 
> tubing is often shaped in a tighter pattern than many trumpets.  That 
> said, I've seen many rather large cornets (although they may still appear 
> to be squatter than a trumpet.  Conversely, my friend Michel Bastide 
> (leader of the Hot Antic Jazz Band of France) has at least one cornet 
> that, to me, appears to be exactly the same as a trumpet.  Looks can be 
> deceiving.  The fact that it's conical, makes it a cornet (not the fact 
> that it appears to be a trumpet).
>  As an aside, some years ago I was chatting with trombonist Dick Dreiwitz, 
> who informed me that the trombone he had (at the time) was in reality, a 
> bass slide cornet.  As some of you may know, a trombone slide can be 
> removed from the horn, and put back the other way (upside down).  On that 
> particular horn, you couldn't do that.  Because . . . it was conical 
> (hence a bass cornet).  To most observers, it was a regular, normal, 
> trombone.  My my.
> ~~~
> While we're on the subject, how about a sax vs. a clarinet?  Pretty much 
> the same thing.  It's more basic than simply one is metal and the other 
> wood (or plastic).  There are metal clarinets, and there are plastic 
> saxophones.  Yes, the mechanics are usually different but the basic thing 
> is that a sax is conical, and a clarinet is cylindrical.
>
> ~~~
> Recently, I was snagged into a hot conversation about the playing range of 
> a cornet as compared to that of a trumpet.  A few folks in that 
> conversation maintained steadfastly that a trumpet can play higher than a 
> cornet can.  I acknowledged that a cornet often has a more mellow sound 
> than does a trumpet.  That said,  I submit that a cornet can play as high 
> as a trumpet.
>
> Over the years (many of them) I've observed that the type of music that 
> seems to attract high-note players is often Big Band sounds and more of 
> what I call modern jazz.
>  To be sure, Louis and Jabbo were high-note players of a much older style 
> of music.
> The cornet seems to be often favored by players of the older styles of 
> music.  For the most part, it seems that old-style players seem to be less 
> likely to want to show off with flashy high-note pyrotechnics.
>
> It seems to me that the cornet and the trumpet are instruments in the same 
> playing range.  Whether or not the players have equal capability to hit 
> those stratospheric notes, is another matter.
>
> ~~~
> OK list-members.  Come and get me.
>
> McN
>
>
>      To: <tradjazz at list.okom.com>
>      Subject: [Tradjazz] Cornet V/S Trumpet
>      Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:42:24 -0500
>      From: "bill" <sylvia1 at ptd.net>
>
> Hey Folks,
>
> I'm a newbie just trying gather some answers concerning the 
> differences/nuances
> between these two instruments... Alright, I know that one is conical and 
> the other
> is tubular... learned that from listening to OKOM and  handy info  if I go 
> on
> Jeopardy.   But the sound....  Does it only depend on the musician?   Does 
> the
> instrument truly create a difference??? I'd just like some ramblings and 
> opinions on
>  this subject.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill G
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