[Tradjazz] ODJB etc.

[Bruce McNichols]

George Hunt brings up some very interesting points. Yes George, I guess you're right. There are no older recordings of our music, than those of the Original Dixieland Jazz (or Jass) Band. We have some of those recordings (re-issues) and should play them. I don't think that we ever have (at least I don't think that "I" ever have). 

I have no issues with the recording quality of old stuff, including most of the acoustic recordings. I find the ODJB's playing to be on the rough side but then, considering the youth of our music at that time, I suppose that's to be expected. 

When I compare their playing to some of the things that came not that long after, such as King Oliver and later, Jelly Roll Morton, I find that to highlight the roughness I mention with the ODJB. 

Of course, there is no right and no wrong. The social inequities of the times, surely resulted in the original guys not being recorded sooner. That said, we are left with a wealth of recordings of both black and white bands from the early days. The real tragedy, of course, is that there should be such a thing as a white band, or a black band, rather than simply"a band." 


~~~

Joe Klee (can I ever get through a posting without mentioning him?) often chided me for not using Black guys in the Smith Street Society Jazz Band. The fact is, over the years, we've had a number of black players working steadily with us.


In our early days (the 1960's) we had the pleasure, and honor, of having Edwin Wilcox with us. Eddie played piano in the Jimmie Lunceford Band where he was also an arranger. Later, Howard Johnson worked regularly with us on tuba.


Eddie Gibbs played banjo with us on most gigs for several years as did George Reed on drums. Eddie was previously with Wilbur DeParis. George was with Henry Red Allen, Jr.


Wilburt Kirk (drums) also from the DeParis band did a lot of work with us. For one summer, our steady Sunday night trumpet man was the phenomenal Herman Autrey (from the Fat's Waller group).


~

All that said, Mr. Klee was onto something in that it was only a very small percentage of our players, who were black. The reasons for that are at once very simple, and very complex.


The social situation in our country was (and still is) very segregated. The result is that one's circle of acquaintances tend to consist of people of your same color. I'd venture to say that in the music world, that situation is less than in most situations (in the USA). Even at that, there still exists a certain cliquishness which might keep the races apart.


Beyond that (and I submit that this is the real issue), our kind of music is OLD. Although the original players of our music were black, I have a strong feeling that present-day blacks may resent the music by virtue of the fact that it represents the old days, which were not very good days as far as justice is concerned.

  Man, this discussion group just sucks me in, deeper an deeper.

That leads to the practical fact that it ain't so easy to find black musicians who really want to play our music. For that matter, it ain't so easy to find any musicians who play our music. Most of the younger "jazz" musicians seem to gravitate towards styles that are "modern," compared to where I'm coming from. 


Of course "modern" is one of those words that is as difficult to define as is the word "Jazz." My interpretation of "Old-Time Jazz" places it in the styles from the late 1890's through the mid 1930's. That goes for later bands, playing in those styles.


I think of the late 30's through the late 40's (and beyond?) with the big bands (Goodman, Herman, Shaw, Basie etc.) as being Swing Bands. I guess the Bop era started in the 40's.


I like a lot of styles besides what I call "old-time." I think of Getz, Brubeck (& Desmond), Al & Zoot, etc. etc. as being Modern but still Swingy. When they started to throw away the traditional rhythm, harmony, melody, etc. they lost me. I don't say that it's bad, I just don't personally care for it.


Phew!  See what happens when ya get me started.


McN

  ++++++++++++++++
  Hi Bruce: 
  "Old Time Jazz." I just thought, for a guy at a "radio station" playing records there is no older jazz than the Original Dixieland Jazz (Jass) Band. They were the first jazz band from New Orleans to record their music, and they did it in the biggest recording city - New York - with the two biggest record labels - Victor and Columbia. Columbia got the band into their studio first, on January 30, 1917, and then Victor recorded the band on February 26, 1917. None of those first Columbia "takes" were of high enough quality to press, and Victor got their records into shops first, in March 1917. Give credit to Victor Sound Engineer Charles Souey for getting it right; Columbia didn't. Columbia got the band back in their studios in May and released the records for sale in September 1917. Remember, in both cases, the recording engineers were using one acoustic horn to capture an entirely new musical sound. 
  The first Victor black label record of the Original Dixieland Jass Band paired LIVERY STABLE BLUES and DIXIELAND JASS ONE STEP. 
  The ODJB was 5 young musicians from New Orleans who learned how to play jazz by listening to the black musicians play it at the whore houses in New Orleans' Storyville District, but they had never worked in that red light district. The real guys didn't record until King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band (with Louis Armstrong on second cornet) recorded in the dinky studio of Starr Piano Company's Gennett Records in the back-water town of Richmond, Indiana, on April 5, 1923. 
  Don't belittle the 5 young white guys. They wrote and recorded dozens of their own songs, and the "real" black guys in New Orleans played all of them. The ODJB was really pretty good, you should play some of their records (I suppose you already have). Their aforementioned record was their only 1917 Victor release. In 1918 they issued 5 Victor records with the following 10 songs: 
  AT THE JAZZ BAND BALL 
  OSTRICH WALK 
  SKELETON JANGLE 
  TIGER RAG 
  BLUIN' THE BLUES 
  FIDGETY FEET 
  SENSATION RAG 
  MOURNIN' BLUES 
  CLARINET MARMALADE 
  LAZY DADDY 
  Every one of those songs had been written by ODJB band members. 
  George Hunt 

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