[Tradjazz] Goodman, Whiteman, et al, Condon's view

[Steve Barbone]

Nothing like a little discussion amongst friends eh Roomie?

For the others on the list, Bill Barnes and I were roomies at Duke
University long ago and though we don't see each other often, we are still
good friends.

As he states, he was not shooting at me, but perhaps at Eddie Condon's
opinion of what jazz was and who played it, or not.

Bill Haesler, who came to my defense is one of the, if not the foremost
discographer of OKOM in Australia, and perhaps the world. He is also the
writer of liner notes on hundreds of jazz albums and, like Bill Barnes, a
top notch stand up guy as well as a good jazz musician. They would get along
famously over a liter of Fosters.

Condon's views were clearly stated, (except for the Kenny G. reference which
was my hyperbole) in his book "We Called It Music."

My reference to Goodman was from a conversation Condon had with Ernie
Anderson in late 1941 about a proposed January 14 1942 concert with Fats
Waller at Carnegie Hall.

Said Condon; "Ernie wanted to invade Carnegie Hall. Whiteman had been there,
and Goodman, but neither had given the customers real jazz. . ."

Earlier, in talking about Luis Russell's band Condon said; "His was also a
large group; with Henderson and Ellington he set a pattern which later was
copied by white band leaders of the late thirties - Goodman, The Dorsey
Brothers, Krupa, etc. It was slick, commercial, arranged music; it was
successful; it paid the rent. Late at night when the business of making a
living was finished, the men in the big bands sat around in small groups
playing music they way they wanted to play it, improvising, creating. Jazz
was for them a luxury, something to be enjoyed on their own time at their
own expense. Frank Teschmaker had often said, 'you can't play it hot and
make a living out of it'."

What Kenny G has done is carved out a successful niche in the commercial end
of the music business. Not unlike Goodman IN THAT REGARD as I see it and so
I used the comparison. Perhaps the difference is that Kenny G calls himself
a player of "instrumental pop" while his audience and those of us who hate
him continue to wrongly define him as a jazz musician.

Condon clearly did not see Goodman as a player of "real jazz" and if he were
still with us today would probably have the same opinion about Kenny G.

Regarding Artie Shaw, he quit music because he felt he was made a prisoner
by the audiences that continually demanded songs like Begin The Beguine and
Frenesi. The music he loved, (jazz?) was not commercially viable and since
he had made his "go to hell money", he left the business, denigrating his
audience as mindless idiots. Said Shaw; "I hate selling myself. I hate the
fans. They won't even let me play without interrupting me. They scream when
I play, they don't listen. They don't care about the music. . . . jitterbugs
are morons . .  unfortunately popular music in America is 10 percent art and
90 percent business. As a result, it boasts more than its share of
charlatans and lacks its share of honest, intelligent critics."

In answer to the question of whether he would have stayed in the music
business if he could have had backing enough to allow him to do what he
wanted musically, Shaw said; "Tempting. I'd probably have stayed with music
the rest of my life."

Notice that Shaw does not describe what he was playing as jazz, but rather
music. :-) VBG  He also thought of the Gramercy Five as Chamber Music,
though we think of it as jazz.

What Condon finally accomplished, in the 1940s, first at Nicks and then at
his own joint. was to play hot jazz and make a living at it. Those of us,
like Bill Barnes and I, who heard that music live, will never forget it. It
was from the gut and like Louis Armstrong's small band jazz of the 1920s,
and again with the All Stars after 1947, something that no one else seems to
have accomplished in terms of raw power and rhythmic pulse.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone